tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.comments2023-09-09T09:36:50.321+01:00Systems Thinking for Demanding ChangeRichard Veryardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comBlogger213125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-18642370213385070642022-01-03T09:07:04.842+00:002022-01-03T09:07:04.842+00:00In 2012, I volunteered as a GamesMaker in the 2012...In 2012, I volunteered as a GamesMaker in the 2012 Olympics, partly because I thought it would be interesting from an OD perspective to experience a very complex organisation from the inside without having any kind of management role, and partly because it would be a completely unique and fun experience. The Olympics is not one organisation but a very complex ecosystem including The IOC, the local Delivery Authority that provides the infrastructure, and the local organising committee. I saw quite a lot of evidence of systematic learning. For example a random sample of gamesmakers, including me, were asked to keep diaries, recording our experiences and things that could be done better. They also seem to have a very robust handover process from one olympics to the next, and I got the impression this is done more by face-to-face communication, and some continuity of personnel between Olympics, than by detailed procedural manuals or IT systems (which seemed to be very basic) Everything ran smoothly, and I was impressed at how a supervisor suddenly materialised on the couple of occasions where problems appeared. From this and other experiences, I would say that it is both possible and desirable for organisations to create effective learning systems. I should say that they have huge amounts of funding, and resourcing was very generous.Cybersalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15258055798612329124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-2457378299884149612022-01-02T20:12:19.508+00:002022-01-02T20:12:19.508+00:00Since there is no adequate linking-and-threading v...Since there is no adequate linking-and-threading venue to do this more constructively that I know of (especially asynchronously), here's my comment on this fascinating discussion:<br />https://stream.syscoi.com/2022/01/02/demanding-change-where-does-learning-take-place-richard-veryard-from-a-conversation-with-harish-jose-and-others/Benjamin Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00513109479059624849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-59842042069418153852021-10-09T14:44:18.606+01:002021-10-09T14:44:18.606+01:00I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. Of cour...I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. Of course, the problem is that if 'systems work' is capable of real innovation - new thinking, ways of seeing, new power, new paradigms - then it is hard to see how a fixed descriptive language could ever capture that.<br />And a huge part of the answer is that just as you say, these systems maps - fetishised, I suspose, because they look cool and deep - should be seen as transitional objects, best thrown away after the workshop (unless, perhaps, they are actually a mechanism to bring people into a particular way of seeing that the group has agreed upon - with all it's insights and omissions)Benjamin Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00513109479059624849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-84283888437486392072021-05-05T07:32:03.370+01:002021-05-05T07:32:03.370+01:00I just happened to read N.N. Taleb and McLuhan at ...I just happened to read N.N. Taleb and McLuhan at the same time, and this left me thinking that a mere "willingness to contemplate what is happening" is pretty much worthless vis-a-vis charting a future course of action. It is less a question of "determinism" per se, rather it all depends on the quality of the information you have. "Event B happened because of A" is a difficult enough proposition even with great hindsight. "Event B happened, now what?" is a whole other kettle of fish. In McLuhan's case, though he is a brilliant retrospective thinker, I question his equanimity in such matters. His "ecological" view of the tech landscape itself portends great difficulties in the forecasting department, as he himself (inconsistently again) observed: e.g. <i>"the exhortation to "think for yourself" is, in these circumstances, a cause of discouragement only."</i> (Mechanical Bride, 144) But this seems to be an outlier statement from him. <br /><br />As for tech people reading McLuhan selectively, let them take note that his guiding literary analogy in The Mechanical Bride is Poe's Maelstrom. Stefan Kachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03103517356905739209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-77325026447538709562020-06-18T16:44:18.653+01:002020-06-18T16:44:18.653+01:00This exchange was preceded by a dispute between Da...This exchange was preceded by a dispute between Dave and Tom, of which I have largely forgotten the details. For my part, I simply noted that the Kurtz & Snowden paper is widely regarded as a key document, and argued that authorship isn't always as simple as it may seem, even to the authors themselves.Richard Veryardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-20650859432095980152016-12-02T22:01:35.912+00:002016-12-02T22:01:35.912+00:00In the debate between Alan and Jurgen, the mullet ...In the debate between Alan and Jurgen, the mullet and the dolphins are each described as (complex) systems. Neither of them look at the mullet-dolphin system, which as Yves points out, is equally interesting in terms of adaptation. Or as Bateson puts it, "survival of the fit". See Dennis Leri, <a href="http://www.semiophysics.com/SemioPhysics_Articles_mental_8.html" rel="nofollow">Darwinian Evolution</a> (1997)Richard Veryardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-23345558899475927762016-12-01T09:24:51.070+00:002016-12-01T09:24:51.070+00:00@ Richard Veryard "So which system is the mor...@ Richard Veryard "So which system is the more complex, which system is the more adaptive?"<br />Neither alone: mullets + dolphins = CAS<br />YvesAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05635974254904790887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-1938718936595199272016-11-02T10:20:10.280+00:002016-11-02T10:20:10.280+00:00Thanks Scribe
As I see it, learning to reflect ex...Thanks Scribe<br /><br />As I see it, learning to reflect existing biases is still a form of learning. Where would our education system be without industrial quantities of "received wisdom"?<br /><br />Unfortunately, the concept of "received wisdom" also applies to many people's understanding of statistics. See for example David Colquhoun's argument that <a href="https://aeon.co/essays/it-s-time-for-science-to-abandon-the-term-statistically-significant" rel="nofollow">It’s time for science to abandon the term ‘statistically significant’</a> (Aeon Essays, October 2016).<br /><br />So in addition to an understanding of stats, wisdom calls for an understanding of epistemology and ethics. Given that this understanding seems to be in short supply, even among the PPE graduates who dominate the political elites in the UK, not to speak of the engineers who dominate Silicon Valley, I think we can safely say that algorithms *will* be misused.Richard Veryardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-63163060209515329282016-11-01T06:59:03.848+00:002016-11-01T06:59:03.848+00:00Hi Richard,
I found the quote by Thrun at the en...Hi Richard, <br /><br />I found the quote by Thrun at the end quite fascinating - an alternative interpretation for it might be that algorithms don't learn as much as *reflect* existing biases (which may be thought of a meatspace algorithm anyway, perhaps), and this reflection can become a "truth" of the existing world, rather than a new, or reinforced truth. <br /><br />The question of transparency becomes really interesting then - if we can find out what the factors are that lead to decisions being made or suggested, are we ready to face up to this as a "clearer" (or, at least, harder to argue against) view of how society already operates? <br /><br />Sadly I suspect we hit a continuing divide between those who understand stats and those who don't here. (A growing inequality/concern generally.) Will we be wise enough to know the difference between factors which are inherent to the world (eg biological tendencies) and factors which we ascribe to the world? Or will algorithms be misused left, right and centre to produce seemingly clever arguments for increased segregation (or worse)?Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757616056135886893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-61285363450800113842015-11-30T09:49:22.137+00:002015-11-30T09:49:22.137+00:00RAEW sounds like a good tool, and sounds like it a...<br />RAEW sounds like a good tool, and sounds like it also links into the work of Elliot Jacques and the later Systems Leadership Theory (MacDonald et al), which are systemic approaches to creating functioning organisations. <br /><br />There seems to be a fad at the moment to fundamentally misunderstand and attack the whole concept of hierarchy, which I worry muddies good debate about the organisation of organisations.<br /><br />I think the point - as Requisite Organisation (also known earlier as Stratified Systems Methodology) as well as the various network forms being promoted through Reinventing Organisations, Holacracy, and Niels Pflaeging's thing which has some exciting names - is to improve the alignment and organisation of RAEW and the equivalent... and then we can discuss whether and how hierarchy or network structures are the solution (and whether they come to the same thing!)<br /><br />This discussion which was generated from a couple of discussions on my linkedin updates partially relates:<br />https://model.report/s/dllfk8/organisational_physics_explained_-_niels_pflaeging<br /><br />PS Thanks for a second blog inspired by a tweet of mine, very flattering! There's possibly a good analogy to be developed between varying momentums and organisational dynamics (I'll have to think a lot more about the Heisenberg connection)...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07197421880936616165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-46902287893648247852014-10-04T13:29:34.439+01:002014-10-04T13:29:34.439+01:00I recently came across your blog and have been rea...I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting. <a href="http://www.oi-institute.com/" rel="nofollow">organizational intelligence</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04689581565955229070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-37260178013576622352014-10-04T13:26:32.470+01:002014-10-04T13:26:32.470+01:00I recently came across your blog and have been rea...I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting. <a href="http://www.oi-institute.com/" rel="nofollow">organizational intelligence</a><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04689581565955229070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-30422130062861264322014-05-22T09:12:50.093+01:002014-05-22T09:12:50.093+01:00Thanks Richard; thorough, informed, and balanced a...Thanks Richard; thorough, informed, and balanced as ever. You are right in your interpretation of my query; I am interested in the application of the national decision making model both to community engagement / communications (primarily external) in policing, and to culture change within policing organisations.<br /><br />We're currently engaged in related client work, and:<br /><br />- for communications and community engagement, the force pointed out that two models we use (one that I developed while at PwC for a National Audit Office 'best practice guide for government communication with the public', and another used by Westco, the trading arm of Westminster City Council - ROSIE: research&insight, objective, strategy, implementation, evaluation) are broadly connected to the national decision-making model. Both are broadly OODA-learn, in my mind - or CHECK-plan-do-act as Brian Joiner would have it.<br /><br />(ROSIE floats around on the web but isn't particularly well-reference - see http://reputation.lga.gov.uk/lga/aio/11478129 for local government source, though it's next to SMART targets in the document which is amusing! <br /><br />The NAO material is no longer online - clearly didn't have the transformational effect I wanted - but the loop is:<br />Analysis - Strategy - Action planning - Delivery - Impact (analysis) - Feedback loop (learning), with two embedded circles Resource & focus and Direct controls <br />It was designed as both a learning and an audit/review tool)<br /><br />Interestingly, while the former is for planning PR campaigns, the latter is intended to be focused on having an impact on *narrative* - the stories told and judgements made about an organisation, initiative etc (not so dissimilar, of course).<br /><br />- in organisational culture change, also with the police, we use a model which works with leaders for them to evaluate the culture in a structured way and then, rather than designing a new culture, hypothesise about interventions that might create positive cultural changes, test them, and evaluate the results. We are also linking this to the national decision-making model.<br /><br />(This approach can be found in Macdonald et al:<br />http://www.amazon.com/Systems-Leadership-Creating-Positive-Organisations/dp/0566087006?tag=ama-prod-id-20<br />and<br />http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Systems_Leadership.html?id=vLa0A7vqBtEC<br />- not light reads and not immediately clear (to me) - you can borrow one of my copies one day if you like! The work emerges from Jacques work on Requisite Organizations - not drawn from requisite variety but, if I have it right, more from requisite theory in mathematics, and is based on thinking about appropriate use of hierarchy in organisations - always somewhat parallel with the viable systems model, to my mind - never quite overlapping).<br /><br />All this is a world away from use of tasers, guns, and conflict resolution in a way!<br /><br />So I suppose it isn't surprising to find variants of OODA / PDCA / scientific method all over the place - a sensible thing to do is to find out what's going on, make sense, and do something, then see what happens - and it could also be considered, apart from, you know, just a basically inevitable thing to do, a parallel with our development of thinking ability - from an existentialist perspective of course!<br /><br />PS While I'm on a self-indulgent and philosophical tangent, allow me to record here so I can find it again my hypothesis that Michael Bedard's piece 'production' is in fact an analogy for psychological development: existence - consciousness - awareness of others - awareness of self. There's a sort of link here. Thank you!<br /><br />http://www.mbedard.com/ProdImages/ProductionBedard.jpg<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07197421880936616165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-1921168609146562172014-01-06T07:53:48.491+00:002014-01-06T07:53:48.491+00:00Per chanced on your blog...interesting overview.
P...Per chanced on your blog...interesting overview.<br />Provides good framework on things to be included in organizational analysis so that they can be "excluded" in aspired states through change management process Harshita Varghesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15199304187847781426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-64366197769103842192013-05-28T08:32:17.231+01:002013-05-28T08:32:17.231+01:00A lot of knowledge management companies provide di...A lot of <a href="http://www.kminstitute.org" rel="nofollow">knowledge management companies</a> provide different programs and approaches in knowledge management. I like the I-P-O description of knowledge management here in your blog. Thanks for posting.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06591936635060085294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-66358010998506116592013-05-14T13:21:20.511+01:002013-05-14T13:21:20.511+01:00Thanks Len. I had copied the reference from somewh...Thanks Len. I had copied the reference from somewhere instead of checking it properly, and have now fixed it.<br /><br />Interesting how people read what they expect to read. In <a href="http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2013/may/09/misreading/" rel="nofollow">Reading it wrong</a> (New York Review Blog, May 2013), Tim Parks shows how translators unconsciously revise a text to make it more predictable. If translators do this, we may suppose that ordinary readers must do it even more.<br /><br />Engineering? Emerging? We ought to know the difference!Richard Veryardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-10643377276352798152013-04-24T15:58:27.093+01:002013-04-24T15:58:27.093+01:00A minor correction -- the title of the Moore book ...A minor correction -- the title of the Moore book is "Emerging Methods in Environmental Design and Planning".<br /><br />len.<br />len.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09940833682572751370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-77242318004114187252013-03-03T10:17:10.950+00:002013-03-03T10:17:10.950+00:00Thank you for your kind comment. The Buddha left u...Thank you for your kind comment. The Buddha left us many stories, which we can learn from at many different levels. Richard Veryardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-81981975884569887492013-03-02T17:12:51.180+00:002013-03-02T17:12:51.180+00:00I think you misunderstand the role of the Buddha i...I think you misunderstand the role of the Buddha in Buddhism. In these stories the Buddha is making recommendations for good behaviour or etiquette. There is no other intervention that is available to him - he is a teacher, not a magician or a messiah. The worse he can do is ask a monk to leave the community. The best he can do is give useful advice. Enlightenment is not an intervention - it is an experience. Each person must experience it for themselves. The Buddha is the advisor on the best way to go about having that experience. <br /><br />The so-called group of six feature throughout the Vinaya and can hardly represent history people, but are ciphers for people who where less committed than average - less aware of their own actions and the consequences, apt to act on instinct or habit (they are all of us in other words). The Buddha creates rules to remind them (and others) that certain kinds of behaviour are not conducive to the path of asceticism they have undertaken. <br /><br />It makes clear that the people who did try to follow the Buddha were of a range of temperaments and talent when it came to his system of practice.<br /><br />Indeed any society is continually adjusting rules - making new rules and deprecating old ones as time goes on. New laws are passed in democracies every week. <br /><br />One of the interesting aspects of this rule making is that it highlights the kinds of things people actually did - since if no one did it there would be no need for a rule banning it.Jayaravahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13783922534271559030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-84390129020798056162013-02-27T10:00:00.711+00:002013-02-27T10:00:00.711+00:00There are some very strange things going on in phy...There are some very strange things going on in physics today, including the work of Sharon Glotzer and her colleagues to which Nick refers, and I don't claim to understand them. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120726142200.htm" rel="nofollow">Entropy Can Lead to Order, Paving the Route to Nanostructures</a> (Science Daily, July 2012)<br /><br />But these new ideas about entropy are not contained in the notion of entropy that was borrowed by cybernetics. At the time of the borrow, entropy was simply a measure of disorder in a system, and that's the version of the notion I was referring to.<br /><br />Perhaps someone is already working to update the cybernetic notions of entropy and negentropy to accommodate the latest thinking in physics. Richard Veryardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-78928554211141505372013-02-26T20:11:44.822+00:002013-02-26T20:11:44.822+00:00Entropy is NOT the "tendency of systems to be...Entropy is NOT the "tendency of systems to become less organized over time." I thought you would have known better Richard. There are many examples of entropy (in the form of entropic force) causing self-organization. See for example, this work: http://sitemaker.umich.edu/glotzergroup/home .Ironickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04377345806640097300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-85885196072710205412012-12-01T16:48:06.850+00:002012-12-01T16:48:06.850+00:00Not using the word innovation is a special case of...Not using the word innovation is a special case of a general degradation in our ability to say what we mean and be heard. The Tower of Babel is the original goal driven activity that produced this effect. Does anyone know of any studies that map our ability to be heard by our fellow humans as a necessary resource for our viability?Aidanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795910135215132283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-54303575654721403662012-10-01T19:57:09.111+01:002012-10-01T19:57:09.111+01:00Richard,
There are 4 types of classifications:
1....Richard,<br /><br />There are 4 types of classifications:<br />1.the ones that rely on nothing<br />2.the ones that emerge from personal experience and thoughts (which emergence can be accelerated by the necessity to make a point)<br />3.the ones that are supported by significant academic research<br />4.the ones that are rooted in the essence of things (if you liked Plato, you'll love the "Porphyrian tree").<br /><br />When I say "made up", I mean type 2. (And I have to admit that my classification of classifications is type 2 too.)<br /><br />I appreciate this is a digression to our topic, but I took my chance to make a side point and write something humourous too.<br /><br />As a teaser to the next post, I'll quote Alexis Carrol:<br />`Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?' <br />`That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,' said the Cat. <br /><br />I'm enjoying this discussion, I hope you are too, and I keep on thinking about it to try and sum up my thoughts.<br /><br />Take care,<br />Christian_BBChristian B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17420664603005836369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-15661886085319494762012-09-30T10:47:13.783+01:002012-09-30T10:47:13.783+01:00Of course my classification is "made up"...Of course my classification is "made up" (invented). Surely all classifications are "made up"? <br /><br />(As far as I can see, the only other alternative is that all possible classifications, including mine, preexist in some platonic space waiting to be articulated.)<br /><br />I acknowledge that I have used terms that are used elsewhere, but language ia always reused. I don't claim any mapping between my classification and any other classification that uses the same terms, although anyone is welcome to try and construct such a mapping.<br /><br />The test of a classification is whether it is useful, and I think the fact that you understand my argument proves that this classification is useful in this context.<br /><br />I think my classification applies equally to both convergence and consensus. My disagreement with Chrisian started on Twitter, where it is almost impossible to express fine differences between two related concepts clearly, and I'm afraid I did not bother to articulate these differences when I moved the discussion onto my blog. However, I hope I have expressed my argument clearly enough to get the debate started, and I look forward to Christian's counter-argument.Richard Veryardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499123397533975655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1254315679163990153.post-61770286563431136512012-09-29T15:11:08.261+01:002012-09-29T15:11:08.261+01:00Dear Richard, I had a good laugh reading your post...Dear Richard, I had a good laugh reading your post, because your classification of convergence and consensus (which you by the way unduly mix up) is purely made up to support your point. Still, I have to admit your argumentation is both clear and strong. I wouldn't have expected less, knowing you from your (e-)reputation. I am on the contrary a local consultant, and I'm afraid I will need more time to make mine as clear and hopefully as strong. I'll keep you posted, and thank you already for opening this discussion space on your blog.<br />Take care,<br />Christian_BBChristian B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17420664603005836369noreply@blogger.com